Why Discredit Gann?
A lot of people discredit Gann. Why? I believe it is because they can’t work out Ganns methods, and they want to sell their own systems.
W.D.Gann never revealed or sold his secrets to anyone – including his son. Gann wanted you to have to work for the secrets. In actual fact, Gann did not get along with his son.
Larry Williams rubbishes Gann all the time, but if you look at the story that William R Gallacher wrote in his book “Winner Take All”, Larry has no credibility at all. Here is a quote from that book on page 39:- “There is no question that Mr. Williams’s personal trading accounts had a material effect upon his composite trading performance. The record reflects that for the first quarter of 1987, Mr. Williams’s composite performance showed a loss of $6,122,281.00, while at the same time Mr. Williams’s personal accounts experienced a gain of $902,599.00. The Panel finds that the fact that Mr. Williams was making significant gains while his managed customer accounts were suffering considerable losses would be a material fact which a potential customer would need to know in order to make a fully reasoned decision”.
This book is worth buying to read how Larry Williams really won the Robbins world trading competition – read pages 33 to 40. Where there is smoke there fire.
In the old days you could run two accounts and allocate the winning trades to one account and the losing to another at the end of the day.
Larry’s own words from the Refco website.
How do you do this?
THIS IS HOW ITS DONE
By Charles R. Babcock
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 27, 1994; Page A01
Hillary Rodham Clinton was allowed to order 10 cattle futures contracts, normally a $12,000 investment, in her first commodity trade in 1978 although she had only $1,000 in her account at the time, according to trade records the White House released yesterday. The computerized records of her trades, which the White House obtained from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, show for the first time how she was able to turn her initial investment into $6,300 overnight. In about 10 months of trading, she made nearly $100,000, relying heavily on advice from her friend James B. Blair, an experienced futures trader.
The new records also raise the possibility that some of her profits -- as much as $40,000 – came from larger trades ordered by someone else and then shifted to her account, Leo Melamed, a former chairman of the Merc who reviewed the records for the White House, said in an interview. He said the discrepancies in Clinton's records also could have been caused by human error.
Even allocated trades would not necessarily have benefited Clinton, Melamed added. "I have no reason to change my original assessment. Mrs. Clinton violated no rules in the course of her transactions," he said.
Lisa Caputo, Clinton's spokeswoman, said the documents were released yesterday "to give as complete a picture as possible" of her trades. She said Clinton had never before seen them.
Blair, who urged Clinton to enter the high-risk futures market and ordered most of her trades, said in a recent interview that he "talked her into" her first futures trade in October 1978 before paperwork on her account was completed. It was liquidated quickly, he recalled, because "it was bigger than she wanted and required more money."
A close examination of her individual trades underscores Blair's pivotal role. It also shows that Robert L. "Red" Bone, who ran the Springdale, Ark., office of Ray E. Friedman and Co. (Refco), allowed Clinton to initiate and maintain many trading positions – besides the first – when she did not have enough money in her account to cover them.
Why would Bone do so? Bone could not be reached for comment, but Blair said he thought he knew why. "I was a very good customer," he said, noting he paid Bone $800,000 in commissions over the years. "They weren't going to hassle me. If I brought them somebody, they weren't going to hassle them."
Besides, he added, Bone would not worry if he agreed with his clients' bet on which way the price of a given contract would go. Blair, who at the time was outside counsel to Tyson Foods Inc., Arkansas' largest employer, says he was advising Clinton out of friendship, not to seek political gain for his state-regulated client. At the time of many of the trades, Bill Clinton was governor.
Hillary Clinton has said she made all the trading decisions herself and has tried to play down Blair's role. But she acknowledged in April, three weeks after her trades were first disclosed, that Blair actually placed most of the trades.
Blair advised Clinton again on July 17, 1979. He recalled that she started that trading day by losing $26,460 on 10 cattle contracts she had held for more than a month, by far her worst loss as a futures player. On his recommendation, he said, she immediately went back into the market. She acquired 50 new cattle contracts – worth $1.4 million -- and when the price moved in her favor, unloaded them around noon for a quick gain of $10,550. This recouped part of her loss.
Blair said Clinton and other friends he suggested trades for had lost money that spring on feeder cattle. Those trades "caused everyone some grief," he said. "I'm sure I was pressing to get everyone back above water" in recommending the quick and bold day trade.
The White House defense of Hillary Clinton's preferential treatment was that other customers in the same office also were allowed to trade without having enough cash in their accounts. While Clinton's account was wildly successful to an outsider, it was small compared to what others were making in the cattle futures market in the 1978-79 period. An investigation of the cattle futures market at that time by Rep. Neal Smith (D-Iowa) found that in one 16-month period 32 traders made more than $110 million in profits from large trades -- those of 50 contracts or more. Clinton traded positions of 50 or more contracts only three times.
The records the White House released yesterday were part of an investigative file from 1979, when the exchange charged Bone and Refco with violations of its record keeping and margin requirement rules. Bone was suspended for three years; Refco paid a $250,000 fine, then the largest in the exchange's history. Internal memos from that investigation cover transactions from the same period in June in which Clinton was trading, but not the same trades. In one instance, the Merc found Bone and a fellow broker were ordering 1,000 cattle contracts at a time – far over the limit allowed at the time – and then allocating them to other customers.
One internal Merc memo said "there is reason to believe" that a majority of Bone's accounts were traded without the clients' permission. Blair said that Bone at times traded his personal account without permission.
Blair said he doubted Bone traded Clinton's account without her permission. Melamed said it was "impossible" to determine the exact cause for the discrepancies between the Merc computer record of Clinton's trades and the trading records she received from Refco, which the White House released earlier.She said that for six trades, her initial trading position in the Refco records were not reflected in the Merc documents. On one other trade neither her purchase nor sale was included. On that trade she netted $12,150 on 15 cattle contracts she held for four days.
Clinton reported a loss of $2,480 on one of the trades in question, Melamed noted.
One was a "day trade" on hog contracts that netted $2,553. Melamed said "day trades" are the only way to assure profit even if favorable trading positions are allocated to a customer's account. Any position held overnight would be subject to the rise and fall in prices in the volatile futures market, he added.
Staff researcher Barbara J. Saffir contributed to this report.
In commodities futures trading, an account that falls below the "maintenance margin" typically triggers a "margin call," where the trader must put up sufficient cash to cover the contracts. Although Hillary Rodham Clinton's account was under-margined for nearly all of July 1979, no margin calls were made, no additional cash was put up, and she eventually reaped a $60,000 profit.
June 29 ......... $56,466 (Margin: Value account should have had to continue trading.)
July 12 ........ -$24,243
July 17 ......... $22,537 (Account value: Total cash on hand plus (or minus) paper value of contracts.)
July 20 ......... $61,537
July 23, 1979: She withdrew $60,000 and never traded again, closing the account in October.
© Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company
Williams blew up, trading a fund in 1987!
"There is some truth here. In 1986, 87 and 88 I managed a substantial amount of money. A significant number of the people came out way a head. Most notably Susan B. Kringle, who had opened her trading account with $60,000 and walked away with approximate $540,000. She then sued me claiming she should have made $63 million. Many people and I mean many, made a substantial amount of money with my trading during that time. As new money in and the crash or 87 developed, I lost money for investors. No doubt about that, it happened. People were not blown out though . . . as I recall the worst damage done was about 40 percent decline in a few of the individual trading accounts."
Larry had been trading for 25 years in 1987 and accounts were still losing 40%? Maybe this is a 25 year oops.
Gann said “After three losing trades, stop trading as your personal cycle has changed” Gann knew stuff.
This is what Larry says about W.D.Gann on his website. W.D. GANN---"This is the biggest fraud going"
I wonder what Gann would say about Larry.
In one of Larry latest books talking about W.D.Gann. “The magazine article placement was accomplished over a dinner where there was some pretty serious drinking as well some money sliding under the table, along with a payment for a large ad in the magazine”.
Gann never drank according to his grandson, read “The Remarkable W.D.Gann” under Free Articles.
I think its very bad form to rubbish someone who has been dead since 1955 and cannot defend himself. This is why I developed the website the School of Gann to keep the authentic name of Gann alive...
Gann knew Jesse Livermore, Livermore use to trade in hundreds of millions of dollars. He went broke a number of times, but 1934 Gann backed Livermore to start trading again. (Page 117, 45 Years in Wall Street by W.D.Gann). This is the type of man Gann was, honorable.
Gann was a member of the New Orleans Cotton Exchange,Commodity Exchange New York,The Royal Enconomic Society of London, American Enconomic Association and the Chicago Board of Trade. This is a man that was respected.
Magic Word by W.D.Gann
“How often have you pressed a button to turn on an electric light and found that the light did not come on? If, on examination, you found the circuit was on then you knew there was a short circuit leading to the light bulb. When this short circuit was removed the light came on. This is what happens to your mind when you are thinking wrong thoughts, such as, hatred, anger, jealousy, doubt and enmity. This produces a short circuit in your mind which affects the body and you will not be well, happy nor successful until you remove the short circuit. This you can do by right thinking and supplanting the other evil thoughts with love and good thoughts. By putting good thoughts into action and doing something good for someone else you put your mind and body in harmony and the short circuit disappears“.
Gann is trying to help you Larry not rubbish you. See he’s a good man.
Page 2 of “How to make profits in commodities” by W.D.Gann. “First, prove to yourself the rules that I give you are good. They have worked in the past and will work in the future. The rules given in the book are practical rules. They have cost me forty years of experience and hundred of thousands of dollars to learn. I KNOW they will work.Dont take my word for it. Prove to yourself that they are good“.
Gann is saying do your own work and don’t rely on others.
Read under Free Articles W.D.Gann unveiled where Gann forecast the exact time and price of cotton in “Tunnel thru the Air” six months in advance as well as the bottom in the stock market four years in advance. I don’t know anyone that can do that.
I can understand why people haven’t unlocked the secrets to Gann; it took me over 10 years full time study to unravel his many secrets.
It’s on public records the forecasts I made in advance since 1990.Look under D.K.Burton forecasts.
I forecast the 130 year high in Cotton in advance in 1995 and the 737 year high in Wheat in advance in 1996 as well as many more famous forecasts. I use Gann’s methods to trade Real-estate, investment art, commodities, bonds and currencies as well as predicting wars and weather.
Gann doesn’t work? “Hello” Larry and all the other non-believers.
Whether you use a company like ours or someone else it doesnt matter, you should always use someone who is licensed as you are protected againt losses. Licensed people cant make false claims in their advertising.
September 10th 2005 , Talk at Newcastle ATAA Meeting.
11.35: David Hunt – ‘Market timing methods for forecasting the future’
In 2004 at the Newcastle ATAA David hunt correctly forecast a bull year for 2005 using WD Gann's Mass Pressure Chart and showed you how to do that. In 2005 David Hunt showed how Crude Oil was targeting the $70 a barrel mark, now you'll be taken through How to Make a Forecast for 2005.
Now David Hunts promotes Gann, unbelieveable, must have screw loose.
David Hunt also cant get a licence with ASIC, thats why he has to get Sonray Capital Markets to help him